Interviewer: Frank Heimans,
            for Baulkham Hills Shire Council

Date of Interview: 6 June 2007

Transcription: Kevin Murray, July 2007

What kind of roles have you played at Lend Lease?

I started in what would be the traditional Lend Lease approach which is very much... you start the junior people out on site, exposed to the hard school of construction management, dealing with a lot of the individual subcontractors, managing packages of work, be it concrete or signage or carpentry, those sort of things. And then gradually just worked my way up within each one of the construction projects - on larger and larger construction projects, with more and more senior roles within those. That probably culminated in the project management role within the Olympic Village in Sydney for the 2000 Games. Responsible for all of the things specific for the athletes, so the main dining tent, which, whilst being a tent, was some 14,000 square metres with the ability to serve 20,000 meals a day. So some significant sorts of things there. And then I went to work in the United States for three years on our Military Housing Master Plan Community Project, and worked all over America on about half a dozen different military installations developing residential components of those communities. And then came back, and I've actually spent almost 4 years now on The New Rouse Hill project in varying capacities.

So what's your current position on that project?

My current position is as Project Director, so responsible for the overall project, and effectively representing the partnership which is Lend Lease and GPT as the joint venture developer. Working in partnership with Landcom and the Department of Planning as the land owner.

What does the Rouse Hill project mean to Lend Lease from a company perspective? How important is it?

It is extraordinarily important. It's what I would classify as one of those sorts of "flagship" projects that really represents what our business stands for. So if you look back over time in any given year, or any given decade even, there's always significant projects, whether it was the development of Australia Square, whether it was some of the first major retail centres that we developed. One of the more recent ones in the UK was the pioneering of Blue Water shopping centre, which, almost 10 years on still is a flagship project. And we see Rouse Hill as one of those. It's not only going to define the industry and the shape of that type of community development in the future, but it's also one of those things that defines what Lend Lease stands for.

The unique element is the mixed use Town Centre (artist's impression October 2002)

And in which way would it define what Lend Lease stands for? Give me some details.

Well I think if we look at the uniqueness of the Rouse Hill project, the fundamental difference and the unique element is the mixed use Town Centre. And then the master plan principles that we've use to develop the entire project. And they were the key things that separated us from our competitors, which enabled us to be awarded the project in the first place. I guess, maybe, to expand on the Town Centre concept a little bit... the Town Centre has been developed, whilst it has a major retail component, which is being developed by GPT, it is very much mixed use in its nature. So in the initial phases we have a Library, a Community Centre. We have learning facilities. There's over 100 apartments that will be developed right in the heart of the Town Centre, and occupied the same time as the retail and commercial first opens. And it's linked with a transportation hub that connects right to the middle of it as well. And all of that is delivered effectively in one stage in a couple of years - which will be finished by March of 2008, which, as I said, is very much a mixed use centre. The fundamental idea behind it is to bring all of the functional and practical benefits of what has been the traditional big block shopping centre but deliver it in a really unique way that gives all of the quality and beauty that traditional Town Centre and main street concept used to bring. But the main street concept never had all that functionality - we've got the best of both worlds, effectively.

Bounded by Windsor and Commercial Roads and including Caddies Creek (April 2006)

So the joint venture - Lend Lease and GPT - are responsible for developing the entire project, and the statistics behind that overall project are that it's 122 hectare site, located approximately 40 kilometres to the North West of the Sydney CBD, right on Windsor Road. The northern boundary being Commercial Road, and the southern boundary being just north of Merrivale Road. That land will be roughly about 30% green open space and up to 1800 residential dwellings and up to 200,000 square metres of retail and commercial space as well as a range of other community and educational facilities such as a high school and a primary school. We're the master developers for that whole project and we will actually deliver the vast majority of the residential in its completed form. Where GPT in their own right come in, is that the first sale of the main part of the Town Centre, being the retail and commercial portion, was a sale of land from the joint venture to GPT, and GPT is responsible in their own right for doing the detailed development and the ongoing operations and management of the retail and commercial portions of the Town Centre. All of the other parts of the project, and all of the other parts of the Town Centre are developed by the joint venture of Lend Lease and GPT.

 Now, what sort of research was done on the development of this particular concept?

The initial premise was based on... firstly, the parameters were set by the State Government in their initial Invitation to Tender, so at a very high level they'd set down some principles they were wishing to achieve and, fundamentally that was to make sure that this regional centre was developed in a much more pedestrian, user-friendly approach, and also a much more environmentally aware approach. So those parameters were set. We then set about developing the scheme, based a lot on our experiences and our developing concepts on other projects. Then, to ensure that we weren't going off in 180 degrees in the wrong direction, we did a high level body of research to understand what the likely users in the entire North West Region felt about the sorts of concepts we were creating. And those concepts were the retail and commercial that I've just described, as well as the residential concepts. Because, even the residential has quite a unique proposition for that area, where we're delivering a much broader selection of residential products than is traditionally available in that North West Sector. By that I mean that we're delivering apartments, and the apartments will be in all shapes and sizes and specification, as well as traditional land lots, but there's a broader range of land lot sizes, and some completed homes as well. And once again, a much broader range of completed homes, so it's not all the very large family houses. While we provide for those people, we also provide for a much broader demographic. So we needed to make sure that that demographic actually existed and we didn't create a white elephant.

So we did high level research in those initial formative stages, and then the further we've gone along we've continuously developed another round of research that delves in deeper. So, right now, now we've got residential propositions, we've actually tested in focus groups of 6 to 10 people, their feelings on colours, styles, sizes... do they prefer two storey, single storey... what sort of landscaping... really getting down into that to make sure that what we deliver is acceptable to the market place. From a retail perspective, we've an enormous amount of research, right down to the colours and materials and finishes, and architectural aesthetic of various elements of the Town Centre. So that's both ends, and we've done a lot of research in the middle as well. So progressive research over the last 4 years.

How many people were interviewed in the initial stages for the research?

In the very initial stages it was like a several hundred sample, then when we went into trying to understand the actual what we call "psychographics", but it's effectively trying to understand how our customer base thinks, rather than just demographics. Demographics is quite quantitative and effectively really easy to perform, and you can get most of it from census data. The real interesting ones in terms of tailoring a project specifically for the market, and secondly then trying to understand what people's thoughts really mean and how do they translate into paper and completed product, is that understanding of their mindsets. And we developed a database of over 1,000 people in what we felt was our analyse catchment, and we did in-depth interviews with each one of those. And then a smaller group of those people, we actually spent 24 hours with... I say "we", but we have research companies that conduct that for us, but we virtually lived with them for a day to understand how they thought, and what they did and how all that worked... really to try and get as best understanding as we could of our customer.

Vinegar Hill Memorial Library and Community Centre in the middle of the Town Centre (artist's impression March 2006)

What are the facilities and the benefits for the community in The New Rouse Hill development?

I think really the breadth of the offer. We've got the Library and the Community Centre right in the middle of the Town Centre, which is clearly something which is important for the community. The fact that we've already delivered a Primary School on site and that we'll be further delivering the site for a High School, which currently the Department of Education plans to open for school year 2009. We have a Learning Hub. That is a facility which will foster a whole range of learning providers under one roof. It's effectively like a portal that, as it develops, people will be able to go there to get a bit of a one-stop shop for education facilities - whether they want to learn another language, or they want to attend tertiary education, that's the Learning Hub will offer that by the time. We have recreational facilities, we have a lot of green space, we have an Environment Centre. So there's education regarding the environment. And there's a layer of interpretation of the history of the site... because the site has significant importance, both from an aboriginal heritage and from a European heritage, and we're bringing elements of that throughout the whole development, so people can understand how it connected to its previous uses.

Interesting. This Learning Hub sounds quite fascinating. What will people be able to learn there?

As I said, at the moment it's a developing proposition. What we've committed to in the short term is that we are delivering the space, so we've got a 2,000 square metre Learning Hub that will be delivered in the middle of the Town Centre and opened in conjunction with the completion of the first stage of the Town Centre. We have a dedicated Learning Manager that's on our team that has the mandate over the next 5 years to develop this Learning proposition and get it to a point where it is sustainable and our Learning Manager can step out and it continues going. And then I think that the most important thing is that that role is to facilitate the bringing together of a very broad range of learning providers. So the specific subjects and courses aren't quite known at the moment because we're still working with each one of the providers, but the idea - and that's where the research comes in again - is understanding what our customer base actually wants to learn, and then making sure that they're the sorts of learning providers we're working with, so that the services and the people match.

Now, how difficult was it to explain to the Council Lend Lease and GPT's plans for this new development?

It has been an educational process for everybody. From that I mean State Government, Lend Lease GPT, and Council. Council's DCP always anticipated a development such as this, but I think it's fair to say that, until you get down into the detail of what the words really mean, and what the actual plans that meet the requirements that the words are, people struggle to understand exactly what we're talking about. And this is a huge development and it is quite unique, and as such there's always a level of concern about what does that mean and are we alienating our constituents, and all that sort of thing. So we certainly went through a very long process of building up what we were trying to do and demonstrating what that was, and some of those things meant taking Council out to look at other benchmark projects, so they could actually see in three dimensions what we were talking about. And then demonstrating that that's a good outcome, and then putting in the right controls to ensure that that's the outcome that we deliver.

All our roads are built to cater for 200,000 square metres of retail (March 2007)

Yeh, I don't think Councillors are unique to that, I think everybody struggles with the same thing... The Town Centre is probably the simplest example of that, I don't think any of us, despite our day to day exposure with the project, fully grasps what we're delivering here until now we can see it coming out of the ground in its glory and go "Wow, OK, now I understand the exact scale". It's a continuous learning process. So, I don't think Councillors are unique in not necessarily being able to grasp exactly what we're talking about.

Now let's talk about the Town Centre a bit. The Council put some restraints on building heights, floor space, that sort of thing. What were they for the commercial and retail sections of the development?

I guess really the key constraint is that there's a maximum of 200,000 square metres of retail and commercial space to be delivered in the project. So that's, I guess, the overall builtform control. All our roads and the like are being developed to facilitate or cater for that kind of volume. The initial phase is that 65,000 plus additional commercial space, so it totals 75,000 or so. That's our first stage. We therefore have subsequent stages that will ultimately see a buildout up to that 200,000 limit. And then there's height limits which is traditionally in the Town Centre and the Northern precinct - a 6 storey height limit, with one exception which is a key iconic building which is part of our residential in the middle of the Town Centre, on Town Square, which was allowed to go up to nine storeys.

Is there a sort of peculiar Australian style or feel to this commercial development?

Yeh, I wouldn't call it peculiar, but what I would suggest is that what we've been trying to do is ensure that what we develop here is what I would call "authentic". It actually feels like it belongs. And it's developed with a style that sits nicely with its surrounds and respects the history of the site, without being tackily sort of tin sheds and all that sort of thing to represent the rural... If you look at what we're doing, it is quite unique to be effectively delivering a town overnight, and therefore it's quite a challenge to get that authenticity, and to get something that feels like a whole lot of buildings, rather than one great big building that's just been plonked there. So a lot of effort's gone in to ensuring that it really does feel like it belongs, and it sits there nicely in the landscape, and the materials and textures and styles suit. So, once again, that research showed that the customer base didn't want highly polished glass and steel and really sharp... they wanted it to be a little bit softer and a little bit more respectful, so we introduced timbers, stone - there's a lot of stone used on the floors, to make it feel more external and a little bit more natural. There'll be a lot of use of things like sandstone in retaining walls and things like that. Once again, to make it feel a little bit more like it sits and belongs to its existing environment.

Mungerie House surrounded by construction work (August 2007)

As I said, the interpretive strategy is our approach to being able to respect that history. So I mentioned aboriginal and European history, there's also that geological history as well, and we try and respect the topography of the site, for example, and the existing water courses that ran through the site. They are the areas that we're preserving as permanent water bodies and creek systems and parkland. We picked up existing trees - for example, there's a beautiful grove of Melaleuca trees in the southern precinct of the site. Well, rather than that just being wherever it is, we've designed the whole southern precinct around that grove of trees, so that there's a major neighbourhood park that they form the centrepiece of. And then the residential fronts onto that park, for example. So, quite a lot of respect for the existing site, respect for the aboriginal heritage, and a display of that. We're working with the aboriginal groups at the moment to make sure that we deal with and manage the aboriginal sites in an appropriate manner that meets their requirements. Similarly with the European history, Mungerie House is an existing farmhouse that's on the site that's some 120 years old, I think. Late 1800's. And that's going to be renovated and restored, and forms the centrepiece of our community facilities in the overall project. So that that, for example, will be something that everybody gets to use and appreciate.

Now, what's the scale of the residential development at The New Rouse Hill? Can you tell me about that?

As I said, there's up to 1800 residential dwellings that are approved across the whole project. The idea behind that is that whilst there is a broad diversity of residential product, a broad range of product, we scale it to suit its location - so the higher density residential, such as apartments, town houses and things are more centred around the key retail, commercial, community and transport hubs, so the Town Centre portion is clearly the key hub. So that's where our highest density is. That's why we've got apartments right in the heart of that Town Centre. Nine, or eight storeys of residential overlooking the Town Square, with a 50 metre walk to the transit way and the train station, when it ultimately comes. And the cinemas and all your restaurants and coffee shops. Then the further you get away from the Town Centre, then the more "traditional" the residential gets... and the more land-orientated the development gets, so we sell parcels of land for individuals to build their own sort of dream home on it.

Right, there are 1800 dwellings and how many apartments are planned?

So, of that 1800 dwellings, there will be approximately 500 that will be developed as land - so sold as land and individual houses built on them. About 300 to 400 completed built homes - so town houses, terrace houses, home office type products, warehouses, that sort of thing. Then the remaining will be developed as apartments, and those apartments will be everything from 2 and 3 storey fronting onto green spaces, up to the eight storey residential that I mentioned in the middle of the Town Centre.

Diversity of housing style as you look down the street (artist's impression October 2002)

The idea is that the homes should be a contemporary architectural style. Trying to avoid historic representations of styles gone past, so they therefore represent the architecture of their time. Now that doesn't mean that they need to be super-modern buildings, or anything. They are still able to be traditional, but the idea is that, particularly for the land lots, there's a high degree of flexibility. But working within a range of parameters, so that you do get that diversity of style and look down the street, which is really what makes the true character of a neighbourhood, but the extremes aren't necessarily promoted. And then, probably more importantly, the style of the houses and the design of the houses are intended to encourage the relationships between the indoor and outdoor living spaces, so that the houses aren't necessarily as physically large as a lot of the traditional homes in that sector, but they live like large homes. So that the size of the homes is put into the living spaces and the relationship between indoor and outdoor, so that they live larger than they actually measure.

Right, so the feel is larger, do you mean?

They feel larger.

Design to maximise solar access (artist's impression October 2002)

Will there be houses that will have a mixture of home office and residential?

Yep. There's traditional land lots and the houses I just talked about, there's apartments and then in the middle, the idea is to create a broad range of types to suit all sorts of uses. So, the specific that you just talked about, being what we call home office, the intention is to locate those close to the Town Centre, where you would traditionally get those sorts of home office uses. And the idea might be that the ground level is an office setup, and then there's living on the upper two levels. So there might be a 3 storey town house with that range of uses.

Now the orientation of these houses, to take advantage of sunlight, and all that sort of thing. Tell me a bit about that...

The overall premise, that is required by code now in New South Wales, is that all the houses will be compliant with BASICX (Building Sustainability Index), which is a minimum standard of environmental performance. The houses are all being designed at Rouse Hill to exceed BASIX, and in a lot of them we'll be exceeding them by a long way, so we do that in a whole range of different ways, and orientation is definitely one of them, so a lot of focus has gone in to ensuring that the majority of the streets run in the right direction to maximise the solar access into the living areas and the private outdoor space for the majority of the day. And that's focusing much more on Winter sun than it is on Summer sun, so it's the use of things like deciduous trees and pergolas and things, so you can get the sun when you want it and you don't when you don't want it. So that solar orientation is one element of ensuring that the homes perform as best as they can. We have a number of other environmental initiatives that we're developing across the project. For example, we're insisting on gas boosted solar hot water to be installed in all of the residential dwellings - built homes and land product, which further increases their performance. It's one of the most efficient ways of getting your hot water. We're doing other things, like ensuring that a lot of the vegetation is native and drought tolerant, which means that effectively it won't die when we've got all of these water restrictions that they also need less watering. We're connecting all the houses to gas, because gas is a lot better for heating and things. We're developing a demonstration village... we're introducing a range of environmental... I guess almost educational tools within that village, so that people can see that being environmentally aware and conscious and doing good things within your house doesn't mean that you have to live too differently, and it doesn't mean that your house looks different to anybody else's. You can do these things with just good thought and good planning. You don't have to make it look like it's different. So we're introducing, for example, worm farms, compost heaps and vegetable patches in the rear of one of the demonstration homes, so that people can go in there and see that you can do those things and you still get a good backyard that looks good and you can entertain in, for example.

That's new, isn't it, worm farms?

Yeh. It's just about making people think and becoming more aware. We're very fortunate at the moment that media and total attention is tipping towards the environment, which is good for all of us, so it means that people are going to embrace that type of thing and look at it really positively. And if people leave - even if they don't buy a house - having seen that and it just triggers another little thing in their mind, and they change the way they live somewhere else, then for me that's a victory too.

Now what provision is there to cater for the housing of older people, in retirement and say for nursing homes, even?

I guess our approach to that is somewhat multifaceted. Right from the outset we are developing a range of single storey residential homes, so if you don't need care, but you're just getting into some of your latter years and stairs and things prove to be a bit of a problem, or you're looking for a slightly smaller home, which we're finding that people in the North West are, but those smaller homes don't necessarily exist at the moment, then that's and option. The fact that we're developing apartments and a lot of them, if not all of them will be lifted... as in having a passenger lift in them... means that all of those homes will be accessible for people in their retiring years, that don't necessarily need care. And then there is certainly the provision, and we're working through the options at the moment, there's the ability within our planning and our master plan to include a retirement village, so it is quite likely we will develop a retirement village in one of the precincts in the project. So that will then offer that next level of service. There's health facilities that have been introduced in the Town Centre, so that's also a good opportunity for that. And there may well be other facilities for the aged care but we haven't worked through those in detail yet.

Now the recycling. You've already spoken a little bit about the recycling, but tell me exactly how that's going to work with the purple pipes, and so on.

What you're referring to there is the water recycling. The whole project will be connected to a recycled water system, so we effectively run double pipes - one for fresh water and one for the recycled water. That recycled water is used for all watering of gardens and, to the extent we need to, parks and things like that, as well as all of the toilets being connected there, so that all toilet flushing will use the recycled water. That system is actually managed at the broader Sydney Water level, so it's a Sydney Water system. They take all of the waste water from our project and a range of the broader part of the North West Sector, and then they deliver the recycled water to our community and a lot of the other communities.

And security has become an important issue for people buying new homes. What thought has been given to that?

I guess there's two ways we're approaching that. One of them is that with a lot of the design we're ensuring that it meets the Police's policies of what they call "Safer by Design". So it's essentially making sure that pathways are well lit, homes and residential and commercial front on to open spaces, rather than turn their backs on them. You don't have lots of little blind alleys and blind streets and things. So just good design practice is the first step. And then when we did some of that research that we talked about earlier, we found that residents were indeed... or potential residents, future residents were indeed very interested in security, and because this project is based around a community title structure, it enables us to facilitate a level of security patrols. (Note, in a Community Title structure each resident buying into the New Rouse Hill owns a portion of common facilities - pools, parks, clubhouse etc - and they each pay levies to pay for these facilities. Security can be one of those facilities and each resident will contribute towards this.) So at the moment we're proposing that just random security patrols would be one of those added benefits for residents in The New Rouse Hill.

Alright, they'll be going around at night, checking on things?

Yes. So, obviously the exact scope of what they do is something that we're still working through, but the idea is just that random security patrol was perceived by our potential or future residents as being a really good attribute. So that's one of the community facilities, effectively, that we're proposing to provide.

Landscaping is suited to the area (artist's impression October 2002)

Now, open space and parkland... you've already touched on it, but what percentage of the site will in effect be green space or parkland?

Almost 30% of the site will be maintained as green open space and parks, and there are a range of different levels, so we have what I would call "regional facilities", and that's predominantly the Caddies Creek regeneration precinct. So there's almost 20 hectares of green space that's around that Caddies Creek land, which effectively connects the entire site together, so all the precincts edge onto that Caddies Creek. And then around that edge of that Caddies Creek precinct will be a hike and bike trail, so you'll end up with a 3 kilometre hike and bike route. And then all of the other green spaces feed into that major regional one. And then each precinct has its own neighbourhood green spaces, so in the terms of hierarchy you have Caddies Creek as the largest, broader regional facility, and then they start getting more specialised towards each precinct. So there's public spaces in the Town Centre that are a little more urban, like Town Squares and Market Squares and ponds and boardwalks that front onto ponds. And then in some of the residential neighbourhoods they're a little more residential in nature... where they'll have kids play areas and basketball courts and sitting areas, and little barbecue pavilions and that sort of thing.

You seem to have thought of everything, haven't you?

Hopefully.

Now, transport. Again we've touched on it, but what will make The New Rouse Hill development different from all others before it from a transport perspective?

The key locational point is that there's a transit way (North-West T-way) that's already operational in North West Sydney, so that when the Town Centre opens that transit way will terminate at the Town Centre. So the day we open the first stage of the Town Centre, we will have that transit way connecting it to Parramatta and the Blacktown - Castle Hill offroad transit way. And then at a more long term level, the whole project is being designed so that it can facilitate the eventual inclusion of the North West Rail Link that will also terminate with its train station in the Town Centre. So it will ultimately be connected very well into the overall rail network for the whole of Sydney.

That's about 10 years ahead, isn't it?

Our understanding from the State Government is that's scheduled for completion in 2017, so yeh, 10 years away.

Right. That's a long time for people who want to buy now to wait for a train though. So is there any way of speeding that up anyhow?

I'd dearly love for it to be speeded up, but I think there's people better positioned than me to be able to influence the State Government. I guess what I would say is that the Transit Way (North-West T-way) is a very good interim measure and I understand that it's being quite well patronised now. And then we've also done things like upgrade some of the major road systems, increased Windsor Road to three lanes across the frontage of our site, and generally designed our neighbourhoods to reduce the need for the car. So a lot of good pedestrian connectivity between our residential areas and the Town Centre. And just the whole nature of the Town Centre and locating schools, and learning, and community in a much closer proximity... some 400 metres and you've got all of that on your doorstep means that people are going to be more likely to walk rather than need to drive and need to be reliant on public transport.

For those people who own cars and have bought houses are there garages included in the house packages?

Yes there is parking provisions for all of the residential dwellings.

Including the eight storey apartment block?

Yes all the apartments have parking minimum of one and three bedrooms two parking spaces and two bedrooms a combination of one and two parking spaces.

On the indigenous side you said you’d been working through some of the indigenous issues with some of the indigenous people. What were those issues?

The site traditionally or historically has been heavily utilised by the Aboriginal community over time. Particularly the Caddies Creek system which is where there was a predominance of use and fires and tool making and all those sorts of things. There are things like grinding grooves where tools have been ground in the rock. So that exists on site. It’s about how do we preserve those things, how do we respect those things, do we hide them or do we open them for display for the public and all that sort of thing. Nobody can help us better there than the Aboriginal community. It’s been a constant engagement with the Aboriginal Community and the Department of Environment and Conservation. So we’ve been working with those groups to do all the right things in all the right steps. Some of the things we’ve done for example; in order to do any work on site where there was thought to be any sorts of artefacts we’ve had to do some serious archaeological discovery. So we’ve dug metre pits in a dozen locations around the creek system to understand, categorise, save and store those sorts of artefacts. Lots of little stone chips, arrowheads and it’s about preserving that. Then when we skim the topsoil off any part of the site we have members of the Aboriginal community there to help supervise that process. To ensure that if we did see anything of any significance then that can be preserved.

So you must have collected a few artefacts by now?

I believe the number of artefacts when you talk about stone chips is in the tens of thousands, so big numbers. A lot of it would be insignificant for you or I but it is all part of that history of the site.

What has been your biggest challenge so far on this particular project do you think?

One of them is certainly the complexity of it in terms of stakeholders and community involvement and groups working out what the right solution is. Then everybody getting all on the same page to deliver that. So that’s been certainly one of the challenges. The fact that we’re delivering what I think is quite unique. Finding benchmarks for that project. Nobody ever wants to just go and decide you’re going to design something and design and built it without understanding how things have been done in the past good and bad. There is no one perfect benchmark for what we are trying to do here. We’ve pretty much scoured the globe and I mean that from European traditional villages to some of the more contemporary retail and mixed use centres that have been developed in the United States to things that we’ve done locally. It’s really become a blend of a lot of those benchmarks to deliver what we’re delivering here.

Have you had any negative feedback from any quarters regarding this development?

There’s always some negative feedback, but the negative feedback has been really very minimal. Over all of our development application phases for this project and we’ve submitted in excess of one hundred Development Applications we’ve had a handful of people writing in with any sort of objection. All of those have been dealt with reasonably simply. I think the overwhelming feeling in the broader community is one of anticipation and excitement about what we are delivering. It’s fantastic to be associated with a project that that’s the community feel. Very positive community feel, "just bring it on", "when are we getting it", a high degree of enthusiasm.

Do you think that this development will become the blueprint for other developments to follow?

Well certainly from a Lend Lease and GPT perspective. There is no question that this becomes the new benchmark for the sorts of things that we will develop. Mixed use Town Centres are definitely becoming I guess maybe the topic of the day. The concept of getting back to some of our traditional ways of developing Town Centres is certainly being picked up as the new way to develop things.

A range of residential options - apartments, town houses, home office (artist's impression October 2002)

I touched on the concept of that authenticity before. The projects that you allude to in the States, whilst the principles are sound in terms of the way they’re laid out and the master planning of them. Once again a lot of those New Urbanist type developments, that’s the definition, tend to be the Town Centre orientated with different forms of residential. They usually pick a style, colonial or something like that and it’s all delivered in that style. That can’t help but feel false I think therefore whilst the principles are sound and the principles of a lot of that planning is what we’re developing here. Picking the good ways about how people liked to live pre suburban sprawl but enabling the functionality and practicality of the way people need to live in the twenty first century. It’s about the way it physically manifests and the style that we deliver is one of today. There is no reason why you can’t have good connectivity and a great little Town Centre with all that mixed use and main street type shops. But I believe that you can deliver in a way that feels like it’s the architecture, design and style of today. That’s what we’re setting up to happen at Rouse Hill and that’s why we’re picking material and types and styles that are just representative of the North West. When we’re selling land lots that individuals can build houses on we’re not telling them that they have to build in a particular style. There is a high degree of flexibility so that you get that variance and change of form and it feels like it’s not manufactured.

Right, I've just about gone through all my questions. Is there something else you want to mention that we haven't spoken about?

Probably in just maybe rounding out... I talked about the complexity of the stakeholders before, I think ultimately the more this project has gained momentum it's been really good to see how all of the stakeholders have come together. I guess really the key stakeholders, whilst people with a financial interest in it is Lend Lease, GPT Department of Planning and Landcom, Baulkham Hills Shire Council particularly have really, once they have started to understand what we are trying to do and what the project's doing, have really embraced what we are doing. And I think that probably is further wide... you know the whole community is embracing of it as well. So by the time we get to the finishing line I think that it will be quite good to see that everybody is real excited about what we are delivering here.

Great, well thank you very much for the interview, Stuart, it has been very interesting...